{"id":33,"date":"2006-02-16T14:56:22","date_gmt":"2006-02-16T22:56:22","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/wp.colliertech.org\/cj\/?p=33"},"modified":"2006-05-02T15:46:10","modified_gmt":"2006-05-02T23:46:10","slug":"discussion-with-sprint-network-designer","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/wp.c9h.org\/cj\/?p=33","title":{"rendered":"Discussion with Sprint network designer"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>The following is a transcript of a recent email conversation I had with Sven Lid\u00c3\u00a9n, one of the primary network topology designers for the Sprint wireless network in the state of Washington.<\/p>\n<pre>\r\n-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----\r\nHash: SHA1\r\n\r\n&gt; -----Original Message----- From: C.J. Adams-Collier\r\n&gt; [mailto:cjcollier@colliertech.org] Sent: Wednesday, February 08,\r\n&gt; 2006 5:48 PM To: Sven Liden Cc: Andrew Weller Subject: Everett\r\n&gt; Wireless Network discussion\r\n&gt;\r\n&gt; Heya Sven,\r\n&gt;\r\n&gt; Can you estimate for me how many radios would be required to cover\r\n&gt; the non-metro area of the city of Everett and County of Snohomish,\r\n&gt; if they were placed on utility (PUD) poles?\r\n&gt;\r\n&gt; Would the number differ if the radios were placed on cell towers?\r\n&gt;\r\n&gt; http:\/\/colliertech.org\/~cjcollier\/images\/maps\/\r\n&gt;\r\n&gt; Thanks!\r\n&gt;\r\n&gt; C.J.\r\n&gt;\r\n&gt;\r\n&gt; -- &lt;cjcollier@colliertech.org&gt;\r\n&gt; http:\/\/cjcollier.livejournal.com\/tag\/ +1 206 226 5809\r\n\r\n\r\nSven Liden wrote:\r\n\r\n&gt; Pretty loaded question...\r\n&gt;\r\n&gt; It depends on a lot of things -- how high the antennas are above\r\n&gt; the \"clutter\", what's their EIRP (power output) and what type of\r\n&gt; antenna (gain) is used, and what capacity you want out of each one.\r\n&gt;  Plus, how much building penetration do you need (in people's\r\n&gt; houses?  In office buildings or store-fronts?)\r\n&gt;\r\n&gt; There are all kinds of ways to estimate it with software (I've been\r\n&gt;  out of wireless for 6+ years, so I don't know what the lastest\r\n&gt; is), but even the software is limited by the granularity of the\r\n&gt; \"clutter\" data you can get, which is expensive to buy.\r\n&gt;\r\n&gt; Generally, systems like this are modeled using a slope-intercept\r\n&gt; model for each antenna.  The slope is an estimate of the far-field\r\n&gt; pathloss.\r\n&gt;\r\n&gt; You would typically do a \"link budget\", which calculates the entire\r\n&gt;  system loss... start off with the minimum detection threshold at\r\n&gt; the receiver (the sensitivity), subtract the fade-margin, receiver\r\n&gt; interference margin, and you end up with a minimum signal level for\r\n&gt;  on-street coverage.  Then you subtract out pathloss for different\r\n&gt; types of building penetration (maybe 10db for suburban, 15db for\r\n&gt; urban, 20 for dense urban), and work your way back to the antenna,\r\n&gt; and you can estimate how far the signal will go in free-space,\r\n&gt; given the amplifier output and antenna gain.\r\n&gt;\r\n&gt; For free-space pathloss, you can just use a calculator like this:\r\n&gt; http:\/\/www.distributed-wireless.com\/calculators\/pathloss_RSSI.html\r\n&gt;\r\n&gt; The issue is that pathloss in non-urban environments (like the\r\n&gt; trees around Everett) can be pretty high.  There are 80' trees in\r\n&gt; some of those areas! Most wireless companies do a lot of\r\n&gt; drive-testing to verify their models. We did this extensively in\r\n&gt; Seattle because of the difficult terrain and dense foliage.\r\n&gt;\r\n&gt; I would guess that if the utility pole were only 35-40' it's below\r\n&gt; tree level in most areas, and it won't carry more than a few\r\n&gt; hundred yards, maybe 1\/4 mile... even with a high-gain antenna and\r\n&gt; powerful amp.\r\n&gt;\r\n&gt; I could give you an \"order-of-magnitude\" guess, but that's about\r\n&gt; it.  You really need to sit down for a few hours and do the\r\n&gt; calculations, look at maps, etc.  For reference, the cellular\r\n&gt; companies have about 300-500 sites each to cover the I-5 corridor\r\n&gt; and metro areas.\r\n\r\n\r\n-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----\r\nVersion: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU\/Linux)\r\nComment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http:\/\/enigmail.mozdev.org\r\n\r\niD8DBQFD9QK1bS8rWWzCfqgRAnQiAJ4uDb9g5ZEwvcNWyKBMfl\/kv9znLgCgpMQW\r\njFe+nQ4vc6KhT+xcKnNZnWQ=\r\n=rQc7\r\n-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----\r\n<\/pre>\n\n<div class=\"twitter-share\"><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/intent\/tweet?via=cjamescollier\" class=\"twitter-share-button\">Tweet<\/a><\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The following is a transcript of a recent email conversation I had with Sven Lid\u00c3\u00a9n, one of the primary network topology designers for the Sprint wireless network in the state of Washington. &#8212;&#8211;BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE&#8212;&#8211; Hash: SHA1 &gt; &#8212;&#8211;Original Message&#8212;&#8211; From: C.J. Adams-Collier &gt; [mailto:cjcollier@colliertech.org] Sent: Wednesday, February 08, &gt; 2006 5:48 PM To: [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[33],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-33","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-wireless"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_shortlink":"https:\/\/wp.me\/p1YDIB-x","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp.c9h.org\/cj\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/33","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp.c9h.org\/cj\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp.c9h.org\/cj\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp.c9h.org\/cj\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp.c9h.org\/cj\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=33"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/wp.c9h.org\/cj\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/33\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/wp.c9h.org\/cj\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=33"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp.c9h.org\/cj\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=33"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/wp.c9h.org\/cj\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=33"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}